BACK WASH....OR WHITE WASH?

 

Domestic Violence by the Numbers
Recommended by: Pen-Wielding Mother of Color
Did you know that 60% of all battered women are beaten while they are pregnant? Here are more disturbing statistics about domestic violence against women.
Average Rating -- 3.00
Source: Wom. Rural Advocacy Prog.
 
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Username Topic: Domestic Violence by the Numbers
 TrudyWSchuett
Registered Member
since 05/26/2003
 
Posted on: May 26, 2003 06:06 
Most of the statistics mentioned on that site are either exaggerations or outright fictions, created to enhance the fund-raising capability of women-only services that refuse to recognize women can also be abusers.

For some real numbers see these sites:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ssewell38/Family-Violence.htm< 2>
http://www.safe4all.org./
http://www.noexcuse4abuse.org/
 
vmontes
Columnist
since 03/05/2003
Posted on: May 26, 2003 23:21 
Again, Trudy, thanks for trying to "round out" the information. Your tone, though, is rather acidic; it's as if you feel these links/sites are about man-bashing. They clearly are not. I don't bleieve this is a women vs. men issue. It's about power and violence and something insidious that condones them. Of course women can also be abusers. But that fact doesn't make the experiences of battered women any less valid or real.
 ken_forthelamb
Registered Member
since 05/27/2003
 
Posted on: May 27, 2003 14:08 
I do wonder where your source came up with these figures. I have seen many times where it is claimed that abuse is the leading cause of birth defects yet the leading orgainzation dealing with this, the March of Dimes does not even list it as a source. It seems clearly then that this 60% came from the same source as the claim that more women are battered on Super Bowl Sunday then any other day of the year. The person that made this claim admitted she pulled it out of thin air to show a problem. The problem is that it was a lie. Sort of like if I told you 60% of all battered men are beaten while they are asleep. I have no basis for that so I can not say it.

Now I noticed your source is "Wom. Rural Advocacy Prog. "

Is this not like asking Ronald McDonald what the best hamburger is?

http://www.shatterdmen.com/
vmontes
Columnist
since 03/05/2003

(NOTE: she condemns my spelling but look 2 post above.)

If we allow LIES to go without comment, WE become a liar too)

Posted on: May 27, 2003 15:35 
It's terrible that such things matter, but I for one would be much more inclined to take a closer look at the site you recommend if its first page didn't contain so many misspellings and grammatical errors. Even the word "shattered" is misspelled!

I sympathize with your cause. I just think it would be more effective if you could promote it without tearing down another equally just cause.
 ken_forthelamb
Registered Member
since 05/27/2003
 
Posted on: May 27, 2003 16:08 
"I sympathize with your cause. I just think it would be more effective if you could promote it without tearing down another equally just cause."

I ask you, what would you say if you replaced "women" with Whites" or any other ethinic groups?

What would you say if our web site had all these "stats" in reverse?..without one shread of proof?

Have you looked at these stats?

"Prison terms for killing husbands are twice as long as for killing wives."

FACT: Men will spend 17 years in prison as opposed to just over 6 years women spend for killing their spouse.

"70% of men who batter their partners either sexually or physically abuse their children."

FACT: 2/3's of all child abuse is by the mother, The next highest rate is by a live in boy friend.

"Domestic violence is the number one cause of emergency room visits by women"

This "fact" is taken by looking at only a couple of high incident E R 's and often if no reason is documented for a women's injury it is assumed she was abused by her husband or boyfriend. I have women in our group that have verified this..they have been hurt in an accident and the E R insisited their husband did it.

"The number-one cause of women's injuries is abuse at home. This abuse happens more often than car accidents, mugging, and rape combined."

This is absolutely not true.

A Centers for Disease Control
(CDC) report found the leading causes of women's injury-related emergency
room visits are accidental falls, motor-vehicle accidents and accidental
cuts. Homicide or injury purposely inflicted by others (including
strangers and intimates) was the least likely cause, exceeded even by
injuries due to animal bites and venomous plants (National Hospital
Ambulatory Medical Care Survey: 1992 Emergency Department Summary).

"The amount spent to shelter animals is three times the amount spent to provide emergency shelter to women from domestic abuse situations.:

There is no report that proves this but I can assure you, NO federal tax dollars support abused men.

"Physical violence in dating relationships ranges from 20-35%."

A recent news article also points out that girls are as likely to abuse the boys but our media skipped right over that one. It does come out in

http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm

"Approximately 95% of the victims of domestic violence are women.
(Department of Justice figures)"

Another 1998 Justice Department report, "Violence Against Women Survey,"
found that while 1,309,061 women were assaulted by an intimate partner in
the prior year, 834,732 men were victims of domestic violence, 39 percent
of the total.

According to my math, if 95% were women, there should only be 65,453 male victims but we have over 769 thoundsand male victims according to the SAME sourc.

I am not tearing down that there are abused women, but when this many "stats" are distorted, I have to wonder about the rest. I also know that most women shelters will not give the time of day to an abused man but we do assist abused women in our group. It is after all ONE HALF the total picture.

Oh as far as the errors. yes there are some but we do not have any funds coming in so we can not afford a web designer. I have a full time job to pay my bills and I do this full time on the side so yes, there are errors but I go on content, not grammer. I always thought the message was more important then the style.
AzraelBrown
Columnist
since 06/22/2001
Posted on: May 27, 2003 17:06 
FACT: 2/3's of all child abuse is by the mother, The next highest rate is by a live in boy friend.

I seems you'd have us think all women are abusers....


...we do not have any funds coming in...


WE? If you have a site to express yourself on, why do you pick on Wom. Rural Advocacy Prog. in OUR forum? Go back to your place, bring up your issues there. You're directing your efforts against us readers who have no influence, interaction, or involvment in Women's Rural Advocacy Prog. Thanks for your input, but this isn't the place for what you're trying to tell us.
 grandmacares
Unregistered Member
 
Posted on: May 28, 2003 06:50 
I was pointed to this site by my son who said there was a debate regarding domestic abuse. Like many of you other women here, I too would be fighting any dissent regarding violence against women -- if it was five years ago. I was involved in the women's movement when most of you were still in diapers and I can tell you this: you're dead wrong on this issue. And it's personal experience that's changed my point of view. Here's my story:

My son is the father of a beautiful little four year old girl. I can't tell you how proud I am of the way he's raising her. I worked for years to see the roles of fathers and mothers changed and he's living proof that I've had some success. But I worry about the two of them every night. You see, his wife is extremely violent and abusive. Hardly a day goes by that she doesn't yell and curse and when she gets real mad she starts throwing puches and furniture. Luckily she hasnt' turned her rage against my grandaughter yet, but I think we all know that it's probably just a matter of time. It's too bad the three of them have no where to turn. He's talked to lawyers and counselors and noone is there to help. If he wants to leave he has very little chance of obtaining custody of his daughter. Someday many of you women may find yourselves in this position and all the blind rhetoric you've spewed will work against you. This is an issue of mental health -- not an issue of politics or ideology. We should all be skeptical about sources of information that are much more concerned about stats and gender specific characterizations than about the how's and why's. After all, violence is perpetrated on individuals -- it's not a contest to see who's more likely to be violent. I truly feel that if you think that sites like that one don't cause problems in the effective treatment this issue all I can say is this -- in 14 years, ask my grandaughter how the violence against women movement has helped her out.
umb
Senior Columnist
since 10/15/2002
Posted on: May 28, 2003 07:08 
Well, having taken multiple sociology and psychology classes, I can tell you that your case study doesn't prove anything.

I can also tell you that a large majority of domestic abuse cases are cases of abusive men, not women. Women do abuse men. This happens. My partner's brother was abused. But this is not the majority of domestic violence cases and is in fact a rather large minority of cases.

Many men won't come forward. This is true. Many women won't come forward either. There is certainly a need for more awareness on both sides of the issue. Men need to have an outlet to vent, too. No one is saying they don't. However, more women are abused than men- many more- and as long as this is true, more websites will be devoted to the issue than the issue of husband beaters.

No one is saying men don't get abused. It's just a statistical fact that more women than men suffer from domestic violence, and that's why it's such an issue. Don't try to silence that issue. It could cost someone her life. You wouldn't want that now would you?
umb
Senior Columnist
since 10/15/2002
Posted on: May 28, 2003 07:14 
"Abused MEN! The other side of the abuse issue.

There is evidence that there are more abused men

then women now. All abuse is wrong but men do

not have a place to go. Even the church

overlooks this problem. Come here and let

us explore this together from a Biblical point

of view."

That's what I read on the "Shatterd men" site. I'm sorry but that statement above is untrue and whoever wrote it didn't even care enough to lie and make up a number to go with it. I've had dozens of Soc./Psych courses and if you told any of those professors what you wrote in the above line, they would laugh you out of the building because you're simply lying. Hands down.

Don't call the kettle black anymore, k? It's not nice.
umb
Senior Columnist
since 10/15/2002
Posted on: May 28, 2003 07:28 
Alrighty.

I've found some real stats for you to look over.

Justice Department and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

-- Estimated 1.5 million women abused each year compared to 835,000 men.

University of Pennsylvania expert on family conflict did studies throughout the 1980's. He estimated that it was 100,000 men abused a year in comparison to 2 million women.

That's a large gap in the stats there, and that's why it's so debated. Does it matter? Honestly. If you truly think it's not a matter of man/woman and that it should be seen as "abuse" then reporting false statements like the one above doesn't make much sense. Why lie?
 grandmacares
Unregistered Member
 
Posted on: May 28, 2003 08:38 
Hip Hip Hooray!!!! the men win the contest for who's the most violent!!!! Yippee!!!

This is exactly what I'm saying. How is this even relevant. If you confirm that there are in fact 835,000 men abused in this country every year, how can you just ignore it as an issue? What is the point of making the comparison? The problem is not that there are more female victims of abuse, the problem is that there are no resources for men or their children and in fact the climate is HOSTILE toward men seeking help. This is just difficult for anyone to understand until they've had personal experience with it. Much of this is because of what's called "cognitive dissonance." Not that most want to ignore it, but it's just not part of the paradigm and therefore gets ignored. However, it has been my experience that there are some unfortunately who are actively hostile because of their own personal feelings. People like this have no place in providing mental health resources -- that's for objective professionals -- but unfortunately that's exactly what's happened.

One of the arguments for why it is that men and boys 14 or over are turned away from shelters and other resources is that it is a limited resource and therefore some women who are in more danger than a man would be may get turned away. Very admirable. Think of this: when have you ever heard of a group in need of governmental resources obtain more by MINIMIZING statistical support for the need? Why would you try to play down the fact that there are very nearly another million people in need simply because of their gender? I'll let you answer that question for yourselves.
 grandmacares
Unregistered Member
 
Posted on: May 28, 2003 08:56 
Here's some numbers to make my point. Let's just say your numbers are accurate 1.5 million abused women as compared to 835,000 abused men. That comes out to be 2,335,000 documented cases of abuse per year. So, of that total number men make up roughly 36% -- slighty over 1/3 of all cases. The question is this then: is creating websites with absolutely gender specific language a valid strategy for helping people? What needs to be understood, I think, is that resources like this one are sources of rhetoric driven by political or philosophical ideology masquerading as resources to help people. Helping people comes second -- reinforcing ideology definitely comes first.

 
 ken_forthelamb
Registered Member
since 05/27/2003
 
Posted on: May 28, 2003 09:58 
"That's what I read on the "Shatterd men" site. I'm sorry but that statement above is untrue and whoever wrote it didn't even care enough to lie and make up a number to go with it. I've had dozens of Soc./Psych courses and if you told any of those professors what you wrote in the above line, they would laugh you out of the building because you're simply lying. Hands down."

It is interesting that you call me a liar yet you have not called those posting that 95% the abused victims are women liars yet you yourself have proven they are.


Senior Columnist
since 10/15/2002 Posted on: May 28, 2003 07:28
Alrighty.

I've found some real stats for you to look over.

Justice Department and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

-- Estimated 1.5 million women abused each year compared to 835,000 men.

Now lets do the math again. 1.5 million women would equal 75,000 men but yet we see over 11 times that number.

The site you quoted has a limited space to make a statement but for my source I refer you once again to a source that does not get PAID for what they find.


SUMMARY: This bibliography examines 138 scholarly investigations: 111 empirical studies and 27 reviews and/or analyses, which demonstrate that women are as physically aggressive, or more aggressive, than men in their relationships with their spouses or male partners. The aggregate sample size in the reviewed studies exceeds 100,000.

This site has many statements such as:

Bland, R., & Orne, H. (1986). Family violence and psychiatric disorder. Canadian Journal of Psychiatry, 31, 129-137. (In interviews with 1,200 randomly selected Canadians found that women both engaged in and initiated violence at higher rates than their male partners.)

http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm

I often find that statement...follow the money honey as being very good for finding the source of problems. The above research did not get paid for what they find and I find that far more reliable that one that does.

 
umb
Senior Columnist
since 10/15/2002
Posted on: May 28, 2003 11:55 
These studies were done at college campuses, and many of them were done in the form of "surveys" which are not conclusive. And yes, professors do get paid for research. It's called "Do at least ____ number of studies per year or you don't have a job."
umb
Senior Columnist
since 10/15/2002
Posted on: May 28, 2003 12:01 
"This bibliography examines 138 scholarly investigations: 111 empirical studies and 27 reviews and/or analyses, which demonstrate that women are as physically aggressive, or more aggressive, than men in their relationships with their spouses or male partners. "

Notice the words in bold. Aggression can be measured as something as simple as calling your partner a name. The term "aggression" does not necessarily mean "abuse." If you took that to mean that men are "more" abused than women, then you twisted it due to lack of education or something else. Aggression DOES NOT equal physical violence.

Even the very first study is listed as a survey.

So this professor got paid in the form of a job by the California State University to do studies on aggression, and he concluded that women are as aggressive or more aggressive than men. Fine. This isn't a study about "abuse," but aggression. So basically you've twisted this and lied on your website. Lying is bad. God hates a liar.

If the other websites lied, fine, God will get them, too. Thunder and lightening and all of that jazz. Yeah.
umb
Senior Columnist
since 10/15/2002
Posted on: May 28, 2003 12:06 
"(Meta-analyses of sex differences in physical aggression indicate that women were more likely than men to “use one or more acts of physical aggression and to use such acts more frequently.” In terms of injuries, women were somewhat more likely to be injured, and analyses reveal that 62% of those injured were women.) "

Did you read that one? Women were 12% more likely to actually be INJURED. Violence/physical aggression aren't the same thing, and the Justice Department reported that there needs to be room allowed for aggression by women BECAUSE they are being abused. If a woman retaliates by scratching a man who is beating her to death- this is NOT a case of violence on the woman's part, but a case of a woman defending herself against violence.

No one is saying men aren't abused. They're abused. My partner's brother was abused. He got divorced within a month and that was it. He had financial resources to take care of himself. He didn't need a "violence shelter." Some men do. Fine, work to get those in your area and in other areas. It's a noble cause. But don't lie to get to that point.
 
 ken_forthelamb
Registered Member
since 05/27/2003
 
Posted on: May 28, 2003 15:09 
"And yes, professors do get paid for research. It's called "Do at least ____ number of studies per year or you don't have a job."

They get paid for doing the reseach, not for what they find. Several years ago, it was reported that more women are abused on Super Bowl Sunday then any other day of the year. The source of that "fact" (which is still repeated on many web sites) confessed that she lied. Of course it was not called a lie. Was she getting paid to come up with proof there are more female victims of violence. When web sites have so many wrong "facts" why are they taken as gospel?
 ken_forthelamb
Registered Member
since 05/27/2003
 
Posted on: May 28, 2003 15:21 
# "(Meta-analyses of sex differences in physical aggression indicate that women were more likely than men to “use one or more acts of physical aggression and to use such acts more frequently.” In terms of injuries, women were somewhat more likely to be injured, and analyses reveal that 62% of those injured were women.) "

I have been saying all along that more women get injured if you bother to READ what we say. I contend that often that happens when the man is tired of being a punching bag and hits back. I have seen many reports where a man has tried to leave but was stopped by his "wife" and if he moved her out of the way, he was arrested for assault. If he blocked her exit, he would be arrested for unlawful imprisonment. Thus he has to stay and hit her fist with his face. If this happens often enough, he will hit back and I doubt if he will pull his punch. IF women were given permission to admit they are violent, then all can get help. As it is when we hear 95% of all abuse victims are men, would a woman want to seek help for her violence if she felt like she would be a freak for having her feelings?

I guess people hear can not understand we are working for BOTH SIDES....I work with as many abused women as I do men and we have as any stories from women as we do men but I guess we all want to keep our head buried in the sand.

http://www.shatterdmen.com/Head%20in%20Sand.htm

BTW I did proof read this since many want to go on style instead of content.
 ken_forthelamb
Registered Member
since 05/27/2003
 
Posted on: May 28, 2003 15:27 
"the Justice Department reported that there needs to be room allowed for aggression by women BECAUSE they are being abused. If a woman retaliates by scratching a man who is beating her to death- this is NOT a case of violence on the woman's part, but a case of a woman defending herself against violence."

Tell this to the son of the chief of police in a town near me. He was arrested because his girlfriend had a bruise on her arm where he grabbed her to keep her from ramming a butcher knife in his chest.

You may need to read these reports again as it states women hit "first" more often so they were not protecting themselves.

A recent 20/20 episode had violent women on it and they all said they were not protecting themselves. Yes some do, but just as men, women often violent without provocation. It is a HUMAN problem, not a gender one.
 ken_forthelamb
Registered Member
since 05/27/2003
 
Posted on: May 28, 2003 15:32 
"Notice the words in bold. Aggression can be measured as something as simple as calling your partner a name. The term "aggression" does not necessarily mean "abuse." If you took that to mean that men are "more" abused than women, then you twisted it due to lack of education or something else. Aggression DOES NOT equal physical violence."


Does this only apply if women are "aggressive" toward men? MOST of the abuse done to women reported in these web sites are the same sort of thing. All a woman has to do to get a restraining order in most places is to say "I am afraid he MIGHT hurt me" and that gets listed as abuse toward women. MOST homes are abuse free but we sure would not know it fromt these sites.
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Username Topic: Domestic Violence by the Numbers
 ken_forthelamb
Registered Member
since 05/27/2003
 
Posted on: May 28, 2003 15:38 
So this professor got paid in the form of a job by the California State University to do studies on aggression, and he concluded that women are as aggressive or more aggressive than men. Fine. This isn't a study about "abuse," but aggression. So basically you've twisted this and lied on your website. Lying is bad. God hates a liar.
#
# If the other websites lied, fine, God will get them, too. Thunder and lightening and all of that jazz. Yeah.

From the web site listed above:

There are four forms of battering:


Physical - includes pushing, shoving, slapping, hitting with fist, kicking, choking, grabbing, pinching, pulling hair, or threatening with weapons.

Sexual - includes forced sex with the threat of violence, sex after violence has occurred, or the use of objects or damaging acts without the woman's consent.

Psychological/Emotional - includes brainwashing, control of the woman's freedom to come and go when she chooses.

Destruction of property or pets.

So you are saying it is only abuse of a woman hits a man but from all of the sites like posted at the top of this link, abuse also includes verbal abuse..ahhh but only if a man does it to a woman. Did I get that right?
umb
Senior Columnist
since 10/15/2002
Posted on: May 28, 2003 17:14 
For once I'm going to go with the justice department instead of California State University surveys passed out to students to fill out before class ends. Your inability to look into methodology, coupled with your inability to seek out only information which agrees with you and dismiss everything else as someone being paid to side with women (Yeah right) makes it pointless to continue any discussion with you. I'm sure I knew this from the beginning, but I just wanted to make sure there really are people this weird in the world. Thanks for restoring my faith in humanity.

P.S. Hey maybe these people were bribed? Do you think the professors were so eager to get results, and so hurt by lack of funding by California State University that they just passed out a bunch of surveys to 18-22 year olds and asked questions like, "Do you ever decapitate your boyfriend's beloved poodles?" so that they could keep their job for the year.

Another thing. Surveys are an inexpensive but error-plagued way to study something. I'm much more comfortable with researchers who have a larger budget because that means they can get a larger sample and all the materials they need to conduct real experiments- not surveys. They're not experiments.

Another thing. I think the biblical solution to teenage rebellion is to drag them to the gates of the city and stone them. Are you condoning stoning?!
vmontes
Columnist
since 03/05/2003
Posted on: May 28, 2003 18:28 
Are you condoning stoning?!

Umb, don't end with a question! He'll only come back! Oh, hell, he'll come back anyway.

As moderator of this particular thread, I'm at a loss. Half of me wants to delete all the idiotic posts, but the other half is whispering "free speech, free speech." We can all see which side is winning out at this point...
umb
Senior Columnist
since 10/15/2002
Posted on: May 28, 2003 19:20 
lol Yes, I have a feeling for you, and I feel your pain on this one. Sorry for commenting so much. Sometimes I just can't help it, especially on this one.

I've said all I'm going to say about it, so maybe if we all commit to "ignoring" from here on out, it will go away.

Let's try that. Hey, this is sort of fun?


Dangerous Myths About Domestic Violence
Recommended by: Pen-Wielding Mother of Color
The best time to read this article is before you discover that someone you know is being battered by their partner. Read it now, please.
Average Rating -- 4.00
Source: BatteredWomen.com
 
 Post A Comment Content Discussion Central 
Username Topic: Dangerous Myths About Domestic Violence
questionsall
Columnist
since 04/23/2003
Posted on: May 20, 2003 17:43 
An excellent article. It also gives some great advice about how to interact with the victim and abuser to not exacerbate the situation.
vmontes
Columnist
since 03/05/2003
Posted on: May 20, 2003 18:40 
This is truly a valuable article. I'm so relieved to know that I did the right thing by not saying anything to the man who is abusing my friend. And the list of what to say and not say to the victim is excellent.

People, click on this link! You never know when you might need this information. And QA, I'm really so heartened by your participation in this discussion.
zenballwizard
Senior Columnist
since 10/18/2001
Posted on: May 20, 2003 20:32 
This is an extremely common problem...one of those nasty little secrets that don't come out until someone is hurt.

Easily one-third of our clients...male and female...have either been abused or are abusers. And, as a bonus, it carries over from generation to generation.
 Arnamenta
Registered Member
since 11/19/2001
 
Posted on: May 21, 2003 18:55 
They should teach this in schools, in the hopes that potential future victims will learn to stand up for themselves and potential future abusers will learn it's not acceptable behavior. Who's with me on this?
zenballwizard
Senior Columnist
since 10/18/2001
Posted on: May 21, 2003 19:46 
It would probably help to identify problem situations.

The victims/victims-in-the-making are sometimes so keyed in to the roles they play that they're unable to move despite knowing what's happening. I know that sounds weird, but think of it as being addicted to the situation, unpleasant though it is. (It actually is a form of codependency.)

It's hard to understand how people stay in these situations unless you've been there...or unless you've dealt with enough dysfunctional people to understand how it is sometimes possible to fear the unknown (change) so much that even situations that are nearly intolerable are less frightening than the (unknown) alternatives.

A person in an abusive relationship knows how to deal with abuse...however badly. He/she doesn't necessarily know how to deal with life outside the abusive situation. In fact, if the abuser has been really good at her/his job, they may be terrified of any change at all, for fear it will make matters worse.

Odd, to "Earth People", but there it is.
 TrudyWSchuett
Registered Member
since 05/26/2003
 
Posted on: May 26, 2003 04:31 
This may have been a useful site if it didn't promote the worn-out old idea the "only women are victims, only men are abusers."

for the other side of the story se:
http://www.desertlightjournal.homestead.com/Myths.html
zenballwizard
Senior Columnist
since 10/18/2001
Posted on: May 26, 2003 14:10 
It's still useful...just not complete.
I agree about the issue, but little if anything(one) is perfect.
vmontes
Columnist
since 03/05/2003
Posted on: May 26, 2003 23:07
I agree, Zen. The article doesn't claim to present every aspect of domestic violence. It covers a specific one. And very well.

That said, thanks for the additional link, Trudy. I read the article and was a bit distracted by the author's crack about "$50 acrylic fingernails." What's up with that?
 beenthere
Unregistered Member
 
Posted on: May 27, 2003 09:38
what a lot of you are missing is the fact that the current climate of the DV paradigm is not that it somehow dismisses or minimizes the idea of women as perpetrators/men as victims, it is openly HOSTILE to it. Most shelters (funded by our tax dollars and therefore held to be open to all) will not even admit boys 14 or older. Mom has to leave him. The other thing is that for dad to leave an abusive wife, his only option may be to leave the kids behind with the abuser. You'd be surprised how many men stay to protect their kids.
 ken_forthelamb
Registered Member
since 05/27/2003
 
Posted on: May 27, 2003 09:53
Interesting web site. I could not hope but to notice the picture...I sure would not want to meet any of those women in a dark alley...or anywhere.

I do question almost all of the information on this link. UNbiased source show that women are as abusive as men

http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm

Although men are abused aa often as are women, there are few places for men to go and none they can take THEIR children so if they left their abuser, they would have to leave their children with her.

I urge you to look at this web site and make sure you go to the 2nd page to see why men don't tell.

http://www.shatterdmen.com/

Click on these also:

FEATURED STORY
A TYPICAL WOMEN" Shelter

The Violence Against Women Act and CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES


 
 ken_forthelamb
Registered Member
since 05/27/2003
 
Posted on: May 27, 2003 10:01 
Umm I noticed this on their home page also:

Corporate Donations | Individual Donations | Corporate Sponsorship | Individual Sponsorship | Advertising

Domestic violence is a THREE BILLION dollar industry for abused women. Men do not have one dime to help them. They are often the ones arrested even if they are the only one battered.

We can not solve a problem if we look at only half the problem.

Try solving this:

4593 Plus XXXXX equal.....

Now get the answer correct...oh can not do it? You are right...you need all of the problem to come out with correct answers. If we do not approach DV from BOTH sides, we are not being fair to the women who will think it is OK to beat a man because "he deserved it" nor are we being fair to their childrem as they will be abused too.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shattterdmen/
 
 beenthere
Unregistered Member
 
Posted on: May 27, 2003 11:14 
If anyone's interested, here's a site that paints a much more clear picture of domestic abuse, how it happens, and how it persists. Lots of useful info and balanced perspective. difference here is it's run by a mental health professional rather than a bunch of idealogues.
 beenthere
Unregistered Member
 
Posted on: May 27, 2003 11:14 
OK here it is for real this time:

http://www.drirene.com/
 thisbitchbytes
Registered Member
since 08/18/2002
 
Posted on: May 27, 2003 13:44 
Interesting links, Ken -- but try assuming that the rest of us have brains too and knock off the kindergarten stuff, especially when you can't be bothered to proofread your own posts.

A condescending attitude goes a long way toward negating your points.
Gelly
Senior Columnist
since 05/27/2001
Posted on: May 27, 2003 13:56 
I didn't see anything condescending about his posts. It's a common misconception that only women are abused.

A good friend of mine is a regular to the emergency room now because of her ex-husband. Pussyfooting around the issue with her with their "what to say" advice would have just pissed her off even more. Like almost anything else, it just depends on the person and how well you know them. But in general, it is a good link.
AzraelBrown
Columnist
since 06/22/2001
Posted on: May 27, 2003 14:46 
This may have been a useful site if it didn't promote the worn-out old idea the "only women are victims, only men are abusers."

I didn't see where the article said this...It seems you have a chip on your shoulder over the fact that a gender-neutral form wasn't used, and I didn't reading anything to the effect that "women can't possibly be violent towards their male partners."

The site's audience is clearly women...would you complain that a Ford Mustang magazine doesn't devote enough time to Chevy pickups? Stop and look at who the article is written for before criticising it's content.
AzraelBrown
Columnist
since 06/22/2001
Posted on: May 27, 2003 14:51 
I do question almost all of the information on this link. UNbiased source show that women are as abusive as men

I urge you to look at this web site and make sure you go to the 2nd page to see why men don't tell.

http://www.shatterdmen.com/


A site called Shattered Men dot com delivers unbiased and equal description of domestic violence across both genders? Sounds rather male-biased to me. Don't question an article written on the topic of women abuse simply because it doesn't address men equally.
questionsall
Columnist
since 04/23/2003
Posted on: May 27, 2003 16:02 
It's very important to remember that nobody here is trying to imply that men are not abused, or that women are never abusers. (Please note the second item on the link).
 ken_forthelamb
Registered Member
since 05/27/2003
 
Posted on: May 27, 2003 16:37 
A site called Shattered Men dot com delivers unbiased and equal description of domestic violence across both genders? Sounds rather male-biased to me. Don't question an article written on the topic of women abuse simply because it doesn't address men equally.

This web site is part of an interactive group in which women make up about a third of the members. We focus on men because they have very few places to turn for help. At one time, some wanted to change the focus to a gender neutral one, but it was the women that were very strong that this group had to keep it's focus on men.

I ask, do these other group in these post even try to find help for an abused man should he go to them?

Almost all of our domestic violence ads are aimmed at abused women. I wonder how many more men would "come out of the closet" if we had ads aimmed at them? I wonder how many more abusive women could get the help they need if they were given permisson to say...I am a woman and I am an abuser"?

I am not trying to cast stones, but if YOU were constantly being abused, would you not strick back if it went on long enough? Again if we do not look at BOTH sides of this issue, we will do nothing to solve the problem.

I also need to say, in spite of the stats given at these sites and that attempt at making it seem as all men are a possible abuser (sort of like all men are potential rapist right?) MOST homes are free of abuse.
 grandmacares
Unregistered Member
 
Posted on: May 28, 2003 06:47 
I was pointed to this site by my son who said there was a debate regarding domestic abuse. Like many of you other women here, I too would be fighting any dissent regarding violence against women -- if it was five years ago. I was involved in the women's movement when most of you were still in diapers and I can tell you this: you're dead wrong on this issue. And it's personal experience that's changed my point of view. Here's my story:

My son is the father of a beautiful little four year old girl. I can't tell you how proud I am of the way he's raising her. I worked for years to see the roles of fathers and mothers changed and he's living proof that I've had some success. But I worry about the two of them every night. You see, his wife is extremely violent and abusive. Hardly a day goes by that she doesn't yell and curse and when she gets real mad she starts throwing puches and furniture. Luckily she hasnt' turned her rage against my grandaughter yet, but I think we all know that it's probably just a matter of time. It's too bad the three of them have no where to turn. He's talked to lawyers and counselors and noone is there to help. If he wants to leave he has very little chance of obtaining custody of his daughter. Someday many of you women may find yourselves in this position and all the blind rhetoric you've spewed will work against you. This is an issue of mental health -- not an issue of politics or ideology. We should all be skeptical about sources of information that are much more concerned about stats and gender specific characterizations than about the how's and why's. After all, violence is perpetrated on individuals -- it's not a contest to see who's more likely to be violent. I truly feel that if you think that sites like that one don't cause problems in the effective treatment this issue all I can say is this -- in 14 years, ask my grandaughter how the violence against women movement has helped her out.

I see there's a similar topic on this board. I'm going to paste this posting there as well....
Username Topic: Dangerous Myths About Domestic Violence
umb
Senior Columnist
since 10/15/2002
Posted on: May 28, 2003 07:37 
I'll agree with you on one thing grandma. Movements that mix politics with personal problems often lead nowhere.

Abuse is a tricky thing, though. 1 out of 10 women in my "region" are abused, and I believe this stat completely because I've heard abused wives talk about it like it's their lot in life because they're under their husband- the "head" of the household just like God is the head of the church. These women believe this and will pretty much go along with anything a man says. That's okay- as long as he doesn't beat the shit out of her every night and then say he's a man of God, bow down. These women DO need help- probably not from a "movement" though, just like you said. It is a matter of psychology and sociology and not politics. I'll agree with you on that count for sure.
blonde_but
Senior Columnist
since 02/03/2003
Posted on: May 28, 2003 08:04 

#"Easily one-third of our clients...male and female...have either been abused or are abusers. And, as a bonus, it carries over from generation to generation."#

I saw this when I worked in the mental health field - it is a situation that perpetuates down through the generations, as you said. Until someone within the family takes a stand, admits what has happened, understands the potential for it to continue to happen, and takes steps to prevent it from happening, it will continue -- in SOME form ... not necessarily the form it was from their childhood -- it may mutate into simply ANOTHER form of abuse, but abuse just the same!

 
 grandmacares
Unregistered Member
 
Posted on: May 28, 2003 08:45 
Why does it always become a debate about who's more likely to be violent?

This is exactly what I'm saying. How is this even relevant. If you confirm that there are in fact 835,000 men abused in this country every year, how can you just ignore it as an issue? What is the point of making the comparison? The problem is not that there are more female victims of abuse, the problem is that there are no resources for men or their children and in fact the climate is HOSTILE toward men seeking help. This is just difficult for anyone to understand until they've had personal experience with it. Much of this is because of what's called "cognitive dissonance." Not that most want to ignore it, but it's just not part of the paradigm and therefore gets ignored. However, it has been my experience that there are some unfortunately who are actively hostile because of their own personal feelings. People like this have no place in providing mental health resources -- that's for objective professionals -- but unfortunately that's exactly what's happened.

One of the arguments for why it is that men and boys 14 or over are turned away from shelters and other resources is that it is a limited resource and therefore some women who are in more danger than a man would be may get turned away. Very admirable. Think of this: when have you ever heard of a group in need of governmental resources obtain more by MINIMIZING statistical support for the need? Why would you try to play down the fact that there are very nearly another million people in need simply because of their gender? I'll let you answer that question for yourselves.
 
 grandmacares
Unregistered Member
 
Posted on: May 28, 2003 08:59 
Here's some numbers to make my point. Let's just say your numbers are accurate 1.5 million abused women as compared to 835,000 abused men. That comes out to be 2,335,000 documented cases of abuse per year. So, of that total number men make up roughly 36% -- slighty over 1/3 of all cases. The question is this then: is creating websites with absolutely gender specific language a valid strategy for helping people? Think to yourself how easy it would be to present all of the same information with no mention of gender roles at all. What needs to be understood, I think, is that resources like this one are sources of rhetoric driven by political or philosophical ideology masquerading as resources to help people. Helping people comes second -- reinforcing ideology definitely comes first.

 
blonde_but
Senior Columnist
since 02/03/2003
Posted on: May 28, 2003 09:01 

#"Why does it always become a debate about who's more likely to be violent? This is exactly what I'm saying. How is this even relevant."#

There shouldn't be a debate -- it just happened to be that the links that were posted were about domestic violence against women ... no one said that there WASN'T domestic violence against men - it just wasn't what the links that were posted happened to be about.

ABUSE & VIOLENCE can and are perpetuated against both males and females at alarming rates, mainly by family members and/or close friends -- there shouldn't be discrimination against who gets help and assistance when abuse is taking place -- but, whenever you deal with "systems" (i.e., generally government-funded systems), there can be a prejudice against who receives assistance and who doesn't -- that doesn't mean that society as a whole has the attitudes that the "systems" have over who is perpetuating the violence against whom -- it is just who is getting the most press coverage, government backing, political support, etc.

It takes the VOICES of the masses to get the attention of the right political (i.e., influential) persons to take up the causes to bring these things to a wider public view.

 
mollissima
Columnist
since 11/10/2002
Posted on: May 28, 2003 09:19 
What's up with that shattered men site? Why are they so bitter about the "typical women's shelter"? The shelter I was at, we all had to sleep in one big room. Sure, there was a kitchen.. and a room with a blaring television. THere was no privacy at all.

I am not saying women or men have it "worse" but why so bitter?
mollissima
Columnist
since 11/10/2002
Posted on: May 28, 2003 09:23 
http://sharedparent.freeyellow.com/brochures/tutaws.PDF<2 >
this is just insane. They make it sound like shelters are just as good as Club Med. Rich people go to shelters? Sure. I doubt ANYONE is going to a shelter voluntarily, for a nice relaxing vacation.
 ken_forthelamb
Registered Member
since 05/27/2003
 
Posted on: May 28, 2003 09:33 
# What's up with that shattered men site? Why are they so bitter about the "typical women's shelter"?

It is not that we are "bitter" but did you go to the next link that shows the typical shelters abused men...nearly one half the victims have?

http://www.shatterdmen.com/Battered%20MEN%20shelters.htm< 0>
I do agree more women get injuryed but it is not nearly the number these web sites claim it is.. I would ask you that if you were being beaten and did not hit back, would you keep allowing it without ever reaching the breaking point? I contend that this is when many women do get serverly injuryed.

I also want to remind you that per DOJ, at least 33%of the victims are men (and that figue is very low as it does not include the male victims that are arrested for BEING beaten) that there is no help for these which is a clear violation of the equal protection clase of CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES

Many do not realize the Violence Against Women Act was for a good part written by the NOW legal department. Umm would this not be like asking the KKK to write laws for Racial relations?

I would like to remind you that I have NOT been abused by my wife and she is fully supportive of what I do, nor have any of my relatives been directly affected, but still and I am not sure why some people can not understand this, if we do not approach BOTH sides, we are not going to solve this problem.
vmontes
Columnist
since 03/05/2003
Posted on: May 28, 2003 09:56 
Okay, ken_for the lamb, I'm beginning to think that 1) you have very little reading comprehension skill or 2) you're deliberately trying to annoy the living crap-ola out of everyone here and therefore reduce your credibility to zero.

Listen carefully: nobody here is saying that abused men do not need or deserve help for their problems.

Listen carefully: the links I recommended are specifically geared towards women who have been abused. I suggested them because a female friend of mine (did you even read my column?) is in an abusive situation. Complaining that the links do not address the problem of abused men is like complaining that a site devoted to country music does not offer equal time to heavy metal. Ridiculous.

Listen carefully: If I have to one day take my female friend to a shelter, I will. And I won't give a damn whether or not the shelter offers equal services to abused men or allows boys over 14 to enter. You want to know why? Because at the moment I will only give a damn about my female friend.

Did you get any of that, ken_for the lamb? Also, ken_for the lamb, it's bad form to not at least make an honest attempt to proofread your posts.
 grandmacares
Unregistered Member
 
Posted on: May 28, 2003 10:37 
VMONTES- I applaud your concern for your friend and understand your emotional and personal connection to this issue -- I've helped many friends in similar situations. But there are some things to discuss. The site may be called batteredwomen.com, but their mission statement is this:

"Our goal is to provide the "abused and battered victims" of the world information they can use to either get out of the situation they are currently in or get advice from other abused victims that may help them. As we continue to grow we will be updating our site on a day-to-day basis. In the future will have weekly scheduled chats, donation pages where you will be able to actually donate items to those in need, links to the best informational sites on the web and many more items to numerous to mention.
We are just beginning our crusade to help victims gather information and realize that they are not alone and that "Yes There Is Help Out There". Come join us in our crusade to help all the battered victims throughout the world. With your help we can let abused victims know that there is help available through support groups, other abused victims and donations from individuals and corporate sponsors."

They say nothing about being anything other than advocates of domestic violence for women. They are very clearly claiming to advocate for victims in general. However, their site very clearly offers its resources to women only. My criticism is that it is wrong to limit support in such a gender biased way.

And you should go earier on Ken. He's probably got friends in the same situation as yours, but without the opportunity of a shelter. His movement to get help for men is very nearly at the same stage as our movement to get help for women was in 1970 and before the days of Erin Pizzey.
 grandmacares
Unregistered Member
 
Posted on: May 28, 2003 10:42 
I just can't stress enough the problem with promoting an ideology hidden behind a health issue.

And please don't punce on me for my proof reading. What I meant to say was: they say nothing about being anything other than domestic violence advocates -- not JUST for women.

My problem is that they are presenting a societal mental health issue as a women's issue. We'd think it ridiculous if schizophrenia or cancer or heart disease was presented so gender specifically.
umb
Senior Columnist
since 10/15/2002
Posted on: May 28, 2003 11:45 
Please don't try to pretend as if all battered women have the options you're describing. 1 in 10 women here are victims of domestic violence, but there isn't a women's shelter here, and women here are often "not allowed" to work because of "biblical standards."

This could go on and on forever. It's senseless. I think someone is just shamelessly trying to promote their website. And "Grandmacares" sounds a lot like they might be someone who knows Ken.

You're very lucky that someone on this site is caring enough to let you share your views without saying, "Get outta here for advanced spamming."
umb
Senior Columnist
since 10/15/2002
Posted on: May 28, 2003 11:49
And "Grandma"

She said "Kenthelamb" should proofread his posts, not you.
 grandmacares
Unregistered Member
 
Posted on: May 28, 2003 12:08 
I'm truly not trying to make it out like all women have those options because I know they don't. My whole issue is just what I said it is: this is a mental health issue -- not a gender issue or political issue. Not to get off topic but it's very similar to the approach being taken on the war on drugs. It's turned into a moral and political issue rather than an issue of the public health (you have to excuse me, I'm a child of the 60's).

And no I'm not trying to promote a website nor do i know Ken. In fact I have the same problems with Ken. He's talking statistics and rhetoric, but just from the other side. I just think that this issue will never improve until it is primarily viewed as a mental health issue and in fact keeps some women from getting the help they need. Domestic abuse is a symptom of the need for control and fear of emotional vulnerability --on the part of abuser AND victim --that has often come about from abuse suffered as a child. End the suffering and you end the abuse.
 grandmacares
Unregistered Member
 
Posted on: May 28, 2003 12:13 
umb -- where are you anyway? Is this some religious community or an area where some orthodox religion is prevalent? I've never had much use for religion for those very reasons.
umb
Senior Columnist
since 10/15/2002
Posted on: May 28, 2003 12:43 
I agree with you on a lot of things. I was mainly responding to Ken.

As for the things you said, I agree that it is a mental health issue. It's something I've learned about in many of my classes. I study psychology and sociology, so believe me, I have no trouble being convinced that it's a mental health issue.

I realize men who report abuse are often laughed at for it. I realize it's a problem, the same as violence against women is a problem. I agree that "abuse is abuse" no matter who is doing it.

As for why I believe violence against women is more of a focus, I believe it is because 1) Women are less likely to be able to defend themselves against a life-threatening attack, and 2) Women are less likely to have the financial resources needed to leave a man, and abuse shelters are a place no one really wants to drag their children. It's the same with men, too. Far too many men don't have the strength to leave either.

But can you see a little bit why there's a focus on women? And why in time the same focus will be on men, too, as more men come out and admit to being abused. Women have to get the help they need. So do men. It's a terrible situation all the way around. I feel for your son. I do. I've heard countless stories from my partner about the ordeal her brother went through. He was abused pretty bad. So I know this issue very well.

I believe abuse is abuse. I agree with you.

As for where I am, I'm from Eastern Kentucky. Appalachia if the name Eastern Kentucky doesn't ring a bell. This is a very religious area. Religion can be an answer for some people, but here I've found it's a source of many problems. I believe in God, but I don't go to church and I never will for the reasons I've described.

 
ADeadHeart
Senior Columnist
since 09/23/2002
Posted on: May 28, 2003 13:08 
I have to say something. Jesus.

The site is called Battered Women.com because the site people figure most individuals are smart enough to realize that if it's called 'Battered Women" it must be for batered women. Wow. Amazing revelation.


The column was about a women in touble. Not a man. So the links coincided.

Give it up.
 
 grandmacares
Unregistered Member
 
Posted on: May 28, 2003 13:16 
umb- I'm so glad we've come to some agreement -- really I am. Notice that when you start to look at it from a point of view of health, all the nasty debate kind of disappears?

Wow -- Eastern Kentucky -- hate the teeth, love the music. I play clawhammer banjo in an old timey and contradance band.
 grandmacares
Unregistered Member
 
Posted on: May 28, 2003 13:17
umb- I'm so glad we've come to some agreement -- really I am. Notice that when you start to look at it from a point of view of health, all the nasty debate kind of disappears?

Wow -- Eastern Kentucky -- hate the teeth, love the music. I play clawhammer banjo in an old timey and contradance band.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Domestic Violence Against Men
Recommended by: Heartless Wonder
A very broad site. Have at it people.
Average Rating -- N/A
Source: google
 
Page 1 of 1
 
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 Post A Comment Content Discussion Central 
Username Topic: Domestic Violence Against Men
ADeadHeart
Senior Columnist
since 09/23/2002
Posted on: May 28, 2003 13:16 Reply w/quote Click here to email ADeadHeart
Here. It's even called Domestic Violence Against Men. So I am certain there will be no mention of women doing anything but beating their spousees. This is a serious issue so for all of you who wanna talk about male abuse, here is your board. Honest. Tear it up. Really.

It is based from Colorado but there's some very interesting stuff here. And enough stats to satisfy everyone I am certain.
 ken_forthelamb
Registered Member
since 05/27/2003
 
Posted on: May 28, 2003 15:03 Reply w/quote Click here to email ken_forthelamb
"So I am certain there will be no mention of women doing anything but beating their spousees."

You would be wrong.

In only a few moments I found this on this site:

"The feminist dogma that the male is always the "perpetrator" and the female is always the "victim" is inaccurate both from a statistical basis and the human dimension. Survey after survey shows that when the actions of men and women are measured, the women, by their own admission, are at least and usually more violent than their male partners.

Notice the at least so it does state men are violent too.

It also finds that more women are injured

""...there are a growing number of complaints that attempts by men to obtain police protection may result in the man being arrested. That ironic situation is an additional reason that men are reluctant to call for police protection. The main reason is one already discussed in explaining gender differences in police statistics: the injury rate is much lower when the offender is a woman and there is therefore less perceived need to call for protection. The fact that assault is a legal and moral crime, regardless of whether there is injury is lost from view. [quote taken from preprint]"

I also notice the site is by
"Equal Justice Foundation" and that it wants to stop ALL violence, Not JUST violence to men.
blonde_but
Senior Columnist
since 02/03/2003
Posted on: May 28, 2003 15:19 Reply w/quote Click here to email blonde_but

Nice try, ADH - but, as the old adage goes ...

you can't please all of the people, all of the time

and, some - you can never please, no matter how hard you try ...



 
ADeadHeart
Senior Columnist
since 09/23/2002
Posted on: May 28, 2003 15:35 Reply w/quote Click here to email ADeadHeart


Hee hee but I didna wanna please him so it's ok...I needed a giggle.

I don't understand fanaticism...
vmontes
Columnist
since 03/05/2003
Posted on: May 28, 2003 19:24 Reply w/quote Click here to email vmontes
Yes, ADH, thanks for trying to take the devil by his horns. I hope your giggle was worth the google, so to speak...
ADeadHeart
Senior Columnist
since 09/23/2002
Posted on: May 28, 2003 19:36 Reply w/quote Click here to email ADeadHeart
Having been a victim of a few types of abuse myself, I know it's a serious issue.

Don't want anyone to think I laugh in the face of abuse.

But me and the devil like to dance and it doesn't seem to be going anywhere so I thought I'd give it a shot.
 ken_forthelamb
Registered Member
since 05/27/2003
 
Posted on: May 28, 2003 23:26 Reply w/quote Click here to email ken_forthelamb
"ADeadHeart
Senior Columnist

"Don't want anyone to think I laugh in the face of abuse. "

NO..you laughed at ME...but THAT IS abuse is OK. I have notice that if women do it to men..it is OK but if men do it to women...it is ABUSE. I am not sure of your gender, but I have noticed that this forum does accept Lies of it gives atats like 95% or more women go to the ER for abuse then any other cause when facts show otherwise.

TRUTH does not matter here!
Gelly
Senior Columnist
since 05/27/2001
Posted on: May 28, 2003 23:48 Reply w/quote Click here to email Gelly
TRUTH does not matter here!

It is all in the presentation, ken.
umb
Senior Columnist
since 10/15/2002
Posted on: May 28, 2003 23:58 Reply w/quote Click here to email umb
Blah blah?

Blah blah blah blah!

Blah

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah dee blah dee blah. Blah ah blah blah eh blah? BLAH blah BLAH blah BLAH!
umb
Senior Columnist
since 10/15/2002
Posted on: May 29, 2003 00:07 Reply w/quote Click here to email umb
That wasn't directed at you Gelly. I have Blah's for Ken only. I am abusive only in writing, so I try to make the most of every opportunity I get.

Ken>> I once caught the beard of Jesus on fire and rolled him down a long, grassy hill. In your expert opinion, would this qualify as "abuse" even though I'm a woman and can't "really" abuse anyone? Hit me back. We can chat.
vmontes
Columnist
since 03/05/2003
Posted on: May 29, 2003 00:53 Reply w/quote Click here to email vmontes
Ohmalord, Umb, you are killing me...
ADeadHeart
Senior Columnist
since 09/23/2002
Posted on: May 29, 2003 02:12 Reply w/quote Click here to email ADeadHeart
I am gonna be rude...be warned.

Awwww...poor baby. Ridiculed by the evil woman.

Look man...you wanna do something about ending the violence against men?

Stop being such an idiot.

No one takes a dumbass seriously...you want people to support your cause? To realize that men get abused too? Then stop whining about a little sarcastic humor, get your butt off the net and become a cop...go save the world man. More power to you.

 
 ken_forthelamb
Registered Member
since 05/27/2003
 
Posted on: May 29, 2003 09:51 Reply w/quote Click here to email ken_forthelamb
I am sure you will not mind if I post this entire thread on our web site?

I think your DOUBLE STANDARDS will be eye opening. I will be sure give you credit.
AzraelBrown
Columnist
since 06/22/2001
Posted on: May 29, 2003 10:13 Reply w/quote Click here to email AzraelBrown
Hey, Ken -- I'm a man, I was emotionally ripped to shreds by my exwife. I think you're entertainingly misguided in everything you've said on this site.

You miss the fact that the links were provided for women, pertaining to women's issues, in connection with a story about an abused woman. You interpret this as disregarding the male side, when there was nothing said to that effect. Untrue: we were talking about women, not men, and your efforts have no meaning here.

you miss the fact that we all think you're a silly zealot, and we bait you simply to watch you jump through the hoop. You see this as us disregarding your issues. Untrue: we're not disregarding your politics, we're disregading YOU.

Sorry that DeadHeart turned you into a male abuse statistic, but judging from the numbers you've been telling us it was just a matter of time before some woman got her claws into you. Sorry, bub.
 ken_forthelamb
Registered Member
since 05/27/2003
 
Posted on: May 29, 2003 10:43 Reply w/quote Click here to email ken_forthelamb
NOOOOOO This group is run by a bunch of gender feminist who see nothing wrong with DOUBLE STANDARDS.

I have been told to "proof read? MY post but those running the show here make mistakes too yet they are never told to proof read their posts.

I have been told I have lied yet almost every stat on most of those web sites have been distorted or are outright LIES and you present them as TRUTH.

I can easily understand why men do not report abuse. If this site is any indication, I would not be surised of many more men are abused then we realize. Yet, those in charge here have even proven that far more then 5% of the abuse victims are men yet little is said. Sure you say you are making me jump the hoops..but in my jumping your little hoops I have proven MY case fully. Anyone with a double digit IQ will be able to see through all of these post.

I have also noticed that someone said they wanted to remove all my post. Well that is fine. I would expect that from feminist. In fact it was due to feminst censorship that got me into this battle as I was a radical feminst myself. Yea...I was 100% on the other side of this issue less then 3 1/2 years ago when I found a web site for abused men. I got to know the owern of that site. SHE was a post polio survivor and had been in a wheel chair or in braces all her life and she was horribly abused as were her sisters who were often very sucidial She posted on several forums...perhaps much like THIS one but her post were removed...why....because her abuser was her MOTHER. She wrote to NOW to get some help with her feelings and they all but called her a liar (much as I have been here) as women do not abuse..(I do remember seeing one of your Columnist here saying she could not abuse anyone because she was a woman..this in spite of the fact that in that same post she abused another man...named JESUS CHRIST!) so She also proved my point that women do not see what they do to men as abuse...after all, men deserve it don't they?

I have many women in my group. Some dropped out of grade school and do not type or spell very well but I would NEVER treat them the way I have been treated here.

I know of at least 6 WOMEN that would be dead by their own hand if not for Shattered MEN. One was going to shoot her young daughter and then herself that very day but she is doing well now. WE DO work with both sides. I can see here you only give LIP sevice to abused men and in deed you ARE abusers yourself. I would not even be doing this if the feminst had at least given my friend lip service..for she would not have done her own research and found as the founder of the first women shelter found..that women are as abusive and violent as men.

TRUTH has NOTHING to HIDE.

I leave you with this..GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND...for you are doing far more harm to WOMEN by denying that they are abusive too.
umb
Senior Columnist
since 10/15/2002
Posted on: May 29, 2003 11:01 Reply w/quote Click here to email umb
What a psycho.

Anyway, Jesus wasn't a man. He's a figment of your single digit imagination.

*Rolling Jesus in a human-sized tortilla and smoking him like pot* Oh yeah that hit the spot.


Night people, have fun with this one, I'm done. lol
AzraelBrown
Columnist
since 06/22/2001
Posted on: May 29, 2003 11:09 Reply w/quote Click here to email AzraelBrown
In all the time ken_forthelamb wasted arguing with us, he could have:

--been writing letters to his congresspeople to push for equal punishment in cases where women abuse the people around them.

--given a seminar to social workers on how to recognize the symptoms of abuse where the woman is the culprit.

--sat in a women's shelter, discussing his gender-inspecific solutions for the problem of domestic abuse.

--volunteered to answer phones for a nonprofit abuse hotline

INSTEAD he came here to INSULT US for riduculing hes speling AND USE OF CAPITALS LETTERS. WE don't have anything to do with DOMESTIC ABUSE. We just READ LINKS TO WEBSITES that we DID NOT CREATE. Oooh -- here's another thing he could have done:

--written directly to the female-centric abuse websites and offered to help them create a gender-inspecific format

But, no...he came here to introduce his frantic ramblings to us. Huzzah!
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Username Topic: Domestic Violence Against Men
ADeadHeart
Senior Columnist
since 09/23/2002
Posted on: May 28, 2003 13:16 Reply w/quote Click here to email ADeadHeart
Here. It's even called Domestic Violence Against Men. So I am certain there will be no mention of women doing anything but beating their spousees. This is a serious issue so for all of you who wanna talk about male abuse, here is your board. Honest. Tear it up. Really.

It is based from Colorado but there's some very interesting stuff here. And enough stats to satisfy everyone I am certain.
 ken_forthelamb
Registered Member
since 05/27/2003
 
Posted on: May 28, 2003 15:03 Reply w/quote Click here to email ken_forthelamb
"So I am certain there will be no mention of women doing anything but beating their spousees."

You would be wrong.

In only a few moments I found this on this site:

"The feminist dogma that the male is always the "perpetrator" and the female is always the "victim" is inaccurate both from a statistical basis and the human dimension. Survey after survey shows that when the actions of men and women are measured, the women, by their own admission, are at least and usually more violent than their male partners.

Notice the at least so it does state men are violent too.

It also finds that more women are injured

""...there are a growing number of complaints that attempts by men to obtain police protection may result in the man being arrested. That ironic situation is an additional reason that men are reluctant to call for police protection. The main reason is one already discussed in explaining gender differences in police statistics: the injury rate is much lower when the offender is a woman and there is therefore less perceived need to call for protection. The fact that assault is a legal and moral crime, regardless of whether there is injury is lost from view. [quote taken from preprint]"

I also notice the site is by
"Equal Justice Foundation" and that it wants to stop ALL violence, Not JUST violence to men.
blonde_but
Senior Columnist
since 02/03/2003
Posted on: May 28, 2003 15:19 Reply w/quote Click here to email blonde_but

Nice try, ADH - but, as the old adage goes ...

you can't please all of the people, all of the time

and, some - you can never please, no matter how hard you try ...



 
ADeadHeart
Senior Columnist
since 09/23/2002
Posted on: May 28, 2003 15:35 Reply w/quote Click here to email ADeadHeart


Hee hee but I didna wanna please him so it's ok...I needed a giggle.

I don't understand fanaticism...
vmontes
Columnist
since 03/05/2003
Posted on: May 28, 2003 19:24 Reply w/quote Click here to email vmontes
Yes, ADH, thanks for trying to take the devil by his horns. I hope your giggle was worth the google, so to speak...
ADeadHeart
Senior Columnist
since 09/23/2002
Posted on: May 28, 2003 19:36 Reply w/quote Click here to email ADeadHeart
Having been a victim of a few types of abuse myself, I know it's a serious issue.

Don't want anyone to think I laugh in the face of abuse.

But me and the devil like to dance and it doesn't seem to be going anywhere so I thought I'd give it a shot.
 ken_forthelamb
Registered Member
since 05/27/2003
 
Posted on: May 28, 2003 23:26 Reply w/quote Click here to email ken_forthelamb
"ADeadHeart
Senior Columnist

"Don't want anyone to think I laugh in the face of abuse. "

NO..you laughed at ME...but THAT IS abuse is OK. I have notice that if women do it to men..it is OK but if men do it to women...it is ABUSE. I am not sure of your gender, but I have noticed that this forum does accept Lies of it gives atats like 95% or more women go to the ER for abuse then any other cause when facts show otherwise.

TRUTH does not matter here!
Gelly
Senior Columnist
since 05/27/2001
Posted on: May 28, 2003 23:48 Reply w/quote Click here to email Gelly
TRUTH does not matter here!

It is all in the presentation, ken.
umb
Senior Columnist
since 10/15/2002
Posted on: May 28, 2003 23:58 Reply w/quote Click here to email umb
Blah blah?

Blah blah blah blah!

Blah

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah dee blah dee blah. Blah ah blah blah eh blah? BLAH blah BLAH blah BLAH!
umb
Senior Columnist
since 10/15/2002
Posted on: May 29, 2003 00:07 Reply w/quote Click here to email umb
That wasn't directed at you Gelly. I have Blah's for Ken only. I am abusive only in writing, so I try to make the most of every opportunity I get.

Ken>> I once caught the beard of Jesus on fire and rolled him down a long, grassy hill. In your expert opinion, would this qualify as "abuse" even though I'm a woman and can't "really" abuse anyone? Hit me back. We can chat.
vmontes
Columnist
since 03/05/2003
Posted on: May 29, 2003 00:53 Reply w/quote Click here to email vmontes
Ohmalord, Umb, you are killing me...
ADeadHeart
Senior Columnist
since 09/23/2002
Posted on: May 29, 2003 02:12 Reply w/quote Click here to email ADeadHeart
I am gonna be rude...be warned.

Awwww...poor baby. Ridiculed by the evil woman.

Look man...you wanna do something about ending the violence against men?

Stop being such an idiot.

No one takes a dumbass seriously...you want people to support your cause? To realize that men get abused too? Then stop whining about a little sarcastic humor, get your butt off the net and become a cop...go save the world man. More power to you.

 
 ken_forthelamb
Registered Member
since 05/27/2003
 
Posted on: May 29, 2003 09:51 Reply w/quote Click here to email ken_forthelamb
I am sure you will not mind if I post this entire thread on our web site?

I think your DOUBLE STANDARDS will be eye opening. I will be sure give you credit.
AzraelBrown
Columnist
since 06/22/2001
Posted on: May 29, 2003 10:13 Reply w/quote Click here to email AzraelBrown
Hey, Ken -- I'm a man, I was emotionally ripped to shreds by my exwife. I think you're entertainingly misguided in everything you've said on this site.

You miss the fact that the links were provided for women, pertaining to women's issues, in connection with a story about an abused woman. You interpret this as disregarding the male side, when there was nothing said to that effect. Untrue: we were talking about women, not men, and your efforts have no meaning here.

you miss the fact that we all think you're a silly zealot, and we bait you simply to watch you jump through the hoop. You see this as us disregarding your issues. Untrue: we're not disregarding your politics, we're disregading YOU.

Sorry that DeadHeart turned you into a male abuse statistic, but judging from the numbers you've been telling us it was just a matter of time before some woman got her claws into you. Sorry, bub.
 ken_forthelamb
Registered Member
since 05/27/2003
 
Posted on: May 29, 2003 10:43 Reply w/quote Click here to email ken_forthelamb
NOOOOOO This group is run by a bunch of gender feminist who see nothing wrong with DOUBLE STANDARDS.

I have been told to "proof read? MY post but those running the show here make mistakes too yet they are never told to proof read their posts.

I have been told I have lied yet almost every stat on most of those web sites have been distorted or are outright LIES and you present them as TRUTH.

I can easily understand why men do not report abuse. If this site is any indication, I would not be surised of many more men are abused then we realize. Yet, those in charge here have even proven that far more then 5% of the abuse victims are men yet little is said. Sure you say you are making me jump the hoops..but in my jumping your little hoops I have proven MY case fully. Anyone with a double digit IQ will be able to see through all of these post.

I have also noticed that someone said they wanted to remove all my post. Well that is fine. I would expect that from feminist. In fact it was due to feminst censorship that got me into this battle as I was a radical feminst myself. Yea...I was 100% on the other side of this issue less then 3 1/2 years ago when I found a web site for abused men. I got to know the owern of that site. SHE was a post polio survivor and had been in a wheel chair or in braces all her life and she was horribly abused as were her sisters who were often very sucidial She posted on several forums...perhaps much like THIS one but her post were removed...why....because her abuser was her MOTHER. She wrote to NOW to get some help with her feelings and they all but called her a liar (much as I have been here) as women do not abuse..(I do remember seeing one of your Columnist here saying she could not abuse anyone because she was a woman..this in spite of the fact that in that same post she abused another man...named JESUS CHRIST!) so She also proved my point that women do not see what they do to men as abuse...after all, men deserve it don't they?

I have many women in my group. Some dropped out of grade school and do not type or spell very well but I would NEVER treat them the way I have been treated here.

I know of at least 6 WOMEN that would be dead by their own hand if not for Shattered MEN. One was going to shoot her young daughter and then herself that very day but she is doing well now. WE DO work with both sides. I can see here you only give LIP sevice to abused men and in deed you ARE abusers yourself. I would not even be doing this if the feminst had at least given my friend lip service..for she would not have done her own research and found as the founder of the first women shelter found..that women are as abusive and violent as men.

TRUTH has NOTHING to HIDE.

I leave you with this..GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND...for you are doing far more harm to WOMEN by denying that they are abusive too.
umb
Senior Columnist
since 10/15/2002
Posted on: May 29, 2003 11:01 Reply w/quote Click here to email umb
What a psycho.

Anyway, Jesus wasn't a man. He's a figment of your single digit imagination.

*Rolling Jesus in a human-sized tortilla and smoking him like pot* Oh yeah that hit the spot.

Night people, have fun with this one, I'm done. lol
AzraelBrown
Columnist
since 06/22/2001
Posted on: May 29, 2003 11:09 Reply w/quote Click here to email AzraelBrown
In all the time ken_forthelamb wasted arguing with us, he could have:

--been writing letters to his congresspeople to push for equal punishment in cases where women abuse the people around them.

--given a seminar to social workers on how to recognize the symptoms of abuse where the woman is the culprit.

--sat in a women's shelter, discussing his gender-inspecific solutions for the problem of domestic abuse.

--volunteered to answer phones for a nonprofit abuse hotline

INSTEAD he came here to INSULT US for riduculing hes speling AND USE OF CAPITALS LETTERS. WE don't have anything to do with DOMESTIC ABUSE. We just READ LINKS TO WEBSITES that we DID NOT CREATE. Oooh -- here's another thing he could have done:

--written directly to the female-centric abuse websites and offered to help them create a gender-inspecific format

But, no...he came here to introduce his frantic ramblings to us. Huzzah!
ADeadHeart
Senior Columnist
since 09/23/2002
Posted on: May 29, 2003 11:32 Reply w/quote Click here to email ADeadHeart
Sorry Ken...you cannot republish elsewhere anything I have said without my consent. It's copyrighted and you don't have mu consent. Unless you wanna do it anyway and then..ahem...get abused by some female cops?
 ken_forthelamb
Registered Member
since 05/27/2003
 
Posted on: May 29, 2003 11:39 Reply w/quote Click here to email ken_forthelamb
# Sorry Ken...you cannot republish elsewhere anything I have said without my consent. It's copyrighted and you don't have mu consent. Unless you wanna do it anyway and then..ahem...get abused by some female cops?
 ken_forthelamb
Registered Member
since 05/27/2003
 
Posted on: May 29, 2003 11:44 Reply w/quote Click here to email ken_forthelamb
# Sorry Ken...you cannot republish elsewhere anything I have said without my consent. It's copyrighted and you don't have mu consent. Unless you wanna do it anyway and then..ahem...get abused by some female cops?

TRUTH DOES HURT DOESN'T IT.?

What may I ask are you ashamed of?

BTW you forgot to proof read your post. There is more then one way to skin a cat.

You ever hear of:

Reproduced under the Fair Use exception of 17 USC 107 for noncommercial, nonprofit or educational use.

Remember we do not get a dime from anyone so we do not make profit..it will be educational and we are not selling anything.
 
Gelly
Senior Columnist
since 05/27/2001
Posted on: May 29, 2003 11:51 
Sorry Ken...you cannot republish elsewhere anything I have said without my consent. It's copyrighted and you don't have mu consent.

But he can post a link to the thread, and as such, not be republishing anything.
ADeadHeart
Senior Columnist
since 09/23/2002
Posted on: May 29, 2003 11:51 
Ok. No the truth does not hurt. Fists hurt. That is your point correct? I have not mentioned your lack of proof reading...if you are still stuck on that after over 24 hours I suggest you seek some counseling. However, taking out your aggression on me based on your anger toward someone else...hey Ken? That's abuse too.

I am ashamed to think I could hold an intellectual conversation with you.

Yes I have heard of that act however, as it could be disputer that it goes toward education...since you really just wish to abuse me in some sneaky manner as a warped form of revenge against all of the women who have kicked your ass...then it's not really legitimate now is it?

Not that siting my email address would really be ilke giving me credit...

And you are selling something...you don't have to make money to sell stuff Ken.
ADeadHeart
Senior Columnist
since 09/23/2002
Posted on: May 29, 2003 11:52 
Sure can Gelly..and that would be great! Just think of all the poor abused men who have nothing better to do then heckle me....they would all come here. To BackWash. Wooohooo!
Gelly
Senior Columnist
since 05/27/2001
Posted on: May 29, 2003 11:53 
Also, ken what does this have to do with feminism and being a feminist?

In the words of my good friend Inigo: You keep using that word -- I do not think it means what you think it means.
Gelly
Senior Columnist
since 05/27/2001
Posted on: May 29, 2003 11:56 
ADH, just trying to bring in more amusement for my work day, and he is sorta funny, ya know.

By the way, ken since you can come here and verbally batter us, why not supply us with the forum you want to post this discussin to so that we can muck up your playground too? What's fair is fair.
ADeadHeart
Senior Columnist
since 09/23/2002
Posted on: May 29, 2003 12:01 
How interesting...there are even typos on the Yahoo Groups page he suggested...and LOOK!!!! It's for women too...

Better not tell him I am a witch...cackle cackle.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shattterdmen/
ADeadHeart
Senior Columnist
since 09/23/2002
Posted on: May 29, 2003 12:04
And he's a Psych Nurse? ACK!

 

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